Romans 8:28

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joshua
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Romans 8:28

Post by joshua »

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose"

What does this verse mean to you? What are 'all things' and what is his purpose?
Amadeus
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by Amadeus »

All things means just what it says... but what is the "good" of those who love God? Until we are very much like God, can we clearly, absolutely and correctly answer that question?

Jesus says that there is none good but One, that is God! Any person then who may be correctly referred to as "good" must, it would seem to me, have a bit of God in him. Jesus spoke of His Father, but why did Jesus respond as he did?

"...Why callest thou me good...? Matt 19:17

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:21

No matter who we believe or have decided that Jesus is, the Father, that is God, is in Jesus. That is to say, Good, is in him!
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esther
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by esther »

Amadeus wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:00 pm All things means just what it says... but what is the "good" of those who love God? Until we are very much like God, can we clearly, absolutely and correctly answer that question?

Jesus says that there is none good but One, that is God! Any person then who may be correctly referred to as "good" must, it would seem to me, have a bit of God in him. Jesus spoke of His Father, but why did Jesus respond as he did?

"...Why callest thou me good...? Matt 19:17

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:21

No matter who we believe or have decided that Jesus is, the Father, that is God, is in Jesus. That is to say, Good, is in him!
Thank you for the relevant bible references. This is giving me more to think about on Rom 8:28. Isn't it amazing how meaningful God's word is.
Last edited by esther on Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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esther
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by esther »

Roman's is such a good book from the bible. I know that this verse is a favorite of many people - including new Christians that find it inspiring and meaningful to them.
Amadeus
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by Amadeus »

Amadeus wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:00 pm All things means just what it says... but what is the "good" of those who love God? Until we are very much like God, can we clearly, absolutely and correctly answer that question?

Jesus says that there is none good but One, that is God! Any person then who may be correctly referred to as "good" must, it would seem to me, have a bit of God in him. Jesus spoke of His Father, but why did Jesus respond as he did?

"...Why callest thou me good...? Matt 19:17

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:21

No matter who we believe or have decided that Jesus is, the Father, that is God, is in Jesus. That is to say, Good, is in him!
A man who has remained agnostic all of his life, in that he never has been able to definitely confirm or affirm God's existence, may still on a regular basis help out people in need that he meets in his day to day life. The "good" that the man has done came from that bit of God in him that each of us had when born naturally [not born again], even though he has been unable to recognize it as such himself. In the end, God may judge that agnostic man above many who have been designated, Christian! What is it we do with that has provided to each of us?

Notice carefully the wording of the following verse:


"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

That is speaking, I believe, about every man born of a woman rather than every man born again or born of God or born from above.


Paul recognizes the bit of "good" in unbelievers when he speaks of "the law written in their hearts"!

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)" Rom 2:14-15

When our doctrines fail us, our hearts will not, if we have that bit of "good" within us.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts" Prov 21:2

The "every way of a man", I believe, too often includes the religious doctrines [and even biblically based] of too many of those who are called Christian!

The "bit of good", that glimmer of Light is not saving Light but it is leading Light. It is how the Father may lead us to Jesus for there is no other name by which a person be saved.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:.." John 6:44

Is this not our hope, that we have even before we have met Jesus? Everyone has that hope. When he follows that hope, that little glimmer of Light, it leads him to Jesus and the fullness of the Light of Jesus... the Life which Jesus was sent to bring is then available...
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Faithful1
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by Faithful1 »

Amadeus wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:36 pm
A man who has remained agnostic all of his life, in that he never has been able to definitely confirm or affirm God's existence, may still on a regular basis help out people in need that he meets in his day to day life. The "good" that the man has done came from that bit of God in him that each of us had when born naturally [not born again], even though he has been unable to recognize it as such himself. In the end, God may judge that agnostic man above many who have been designated, Christian! What is it we do with that has provided to each of us?
I agree with this - God's word has been written on the heart of all of us (even those not necessarily identifying as Christian) - eg. Romans 1:19. God has put within us his word which of course includes serving others. The next point, although I almost want to believe it, I can't really. The idea that the agnostic may be judged above many who have been designated is a stretch for me. Mind you, I guess it depends also on what we mean by designated. If designated refers to those that have received Christ as their Lord and Saviour well then I think they would in all cases be judged above the agnostic 'good' person. Consider Eph 2:8-9 - for it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works so that no one can boast. Then John 1:12 about believing in his name and 1 John 5:11-12 also. I guess there are lots of verses about consciously receiving Christ.
Amadeus
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by Amadeus »

Faithful1 wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:39 pm
Amadeus wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:36 pm
A man who has remained agnostic all of his life, in that he never has been able to definitely confirm or affirm God's existence, may still on a regular basis help out people in need that he meets in his day to day life. The "good" that the man has done came from that bit of God in him that each of us had when born naturally [not born again], even though he has been unable to recognize it as such himself. In the end, God may judge that agnostic man above many who have been designated, Christian! What is it we do with that has provided to each of us?
I agree with this - God's word has been written on the heart of all of us (even those not necessarily identifying as Christian) - eg. Romans 1:19. God has put within us his word which of course includes serving others. The next point, although I almost want to believe it, I can't really. The idea that the agnostic may be judged above many who have been designated is a stretch for me. Mind you, I guess it depends also on what we mean by designated. If designated refers to those that have received Christ as their Lord and Saviour well then I think they would in all cases be judged above the agnostic 'good' person. Consider Eph 2:8-9 - for it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works so that no one can boast. Then John 1:12 about believing in his name and 1 John 5:11-12 also. I guess there are lots of verses about consciously receiving Christ.
Being designated as a Christian by self or other men does not mean the person is really saved. Consider what Jesus says here:

"And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee." Matt 11:23-24

Remember that Sodom was destroyed, with apparently only Lot and his two daughters being saved [his wife became a pillar of salt]
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joshua
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by joshua »

I would think there are many individuals who would suggest they are saved when they actually know otherwise. I wonder though if there are many who truly believe they are saved but perhaps are not. I like to think that if you are walking the right path you should know.
Amadeus
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by Amadeus »

joshua wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:44 pm I would think there are many individuals who would suggest they are saved when they actually know otherwise. I wonder though if there are many who truly believe they are saved but perhaps are not. I like to think that if you are walking the right path you should know.
Consider then these verses:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

So long as we love the truth, which Jesus is, we will not be deluded. If don't however really love the Truth, then God sends us a delusion so we believe that we do. Such people will believe that are on the right path, but do not know that they are not.

The key is the Love of Truth. It is not knowing the Truth.

When we first met our spouses to be we did not know them. Even when we married them we still did not know one another even though we loved each another. In time with both spouses working at it they come to know each other better and the love between should be growing, right?

This coming June, my wife and I will attain to our 49th anniversary. We certainly love each other, but even after so many years there are things that each of us does not know about the other. Our vision of each other is better than we first began but perfect it is not.

When meet the Lord it should be similar. We love Him when we first meet Him, but how well do we know him? If we start to talk to him regularly and read our Bibles to learn more about him we will get to know him better even as the natural spouses.

We must always love the Truth, that is Jesus, even though we do not know him fully and completely. We are seeking, asking and knocking so as to learn more about him, so as to see his face more clearly. Consider this:

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

What happened with the second touch?

Can a person fall out of love with Jesus? What happens to a person who become weary in well doing? What happens when a person lets up on his daily talks with his natural spouse, his daily connection? Would we expect something different with Jesus? He loves us, but if we really love him and continue to love how could we or would stop talking with him and connecting with him?
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joshua
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Re: Romans 8:28

Post by joshua »

Amadeus wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 pm
joshua wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:44 pm I would think there are many individuals who would suggest they are saved when they actually know otherwise. I wonder though if there are many who truly believe they are saved but perhaps are not. I like to think that if you are walking the right path you should know.
This coming June, my wife and I will attain to our 49th anniversary. We certainly love each other, but even after so many years there are things that each of us does not know about the other. Our vision of each other is better than we first began but perfect it is not.
Amadeus, congratulations on your upcoming 49th!
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